Saturday, January 22, 2011

A refutation of current religions, part I, introduction


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A refutation of current religions, part one, introduction
Gnosisquest

This refutation is of the prevailing religious institutions Yahwism, (Judaism) Islam and Christianity.

Yahwism spawned booth of these other religions and the entire basis of Yahwism is wrong.

Yahwism is the worship of the ancient God also referred to as YHWH. This God is first encountered among the ancient Shasu about 3400 years ago. To them YHWH was their chief deity, they were the tribe which had been given to YHWH also known as Yaw by the God El.

(See among other things "Egypt Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times" by Donald B. Redford).

This time in history was also the time of the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit in which enormous amounts of ancient manuscripts were found. Among these manuscripts, in Baal II there is related how the chief and father of all Gods except Baal called his son YHWH to him and El stated: "Your name shall no longer be Yaw, Yammu shall be your name. Yammu is very well known among researchers, he was the God that recruited souls to his underworld where he sought to trap them. He was also a jealous God as he was so ugly no female deity desired him.

Yammu fought the God Baal annually, Baal was the God of life and every spring he announced his coming with the first rain. Half of the year he spent in the underworld as the inhabitants there also needed to have their crops watered.

Yahwism deals with subjects which occurred about 4000 BC which are subjects Judaism had no relations with.

Judaism itself can be traced to 3-400 BC, not before. There is no material anywhere which would indicate anyone worshipped or believed as the Israelites did.

The Sumerians are dated to about 4000 BC as the earliest written material with a definite Sumerian tradition is dated to this time in history.
The Egyptians are dated to about 3500 BC as that is when the first distinctive Egyptian artifacts are discovered from. There is proof people lived in the Egyptian delta for millenniums prior to 3500 BC but as none of the artifacts can be positively linked with the Egyptian culture until 3500 that is when the culture is said to date from.

Since the first material which can be identified with the Israelites comes from 3-400 BC we can also say the Israelites date from that time.

Some people would say that the LXX version of the Bible date from that time, yet this is categorically false, as we shall see; LXX may well date to 3-400 AD, not BC.

The Egyptians stated about 4000 years ago: "If there is an afterlife will you spend eternity avoiding those you have wronged"? As you will see there are plenty who have been wronged due to these three religions we are about to discuss.

Best Ras

  1. Chiang_Mai_boy
    I missed you here yesterday. There are few supporters of logic and reason here and your absence was noted. This is an interesting introduction but leaves little to respond to yet. I would make one request, please include the Hindu and Buddhist religions in your discussion. There are other religious tredtions and belief systems that did not evolve in the mid east.


    Gnosisquest
    Thank you Chiang, this week I worked 10-14 hours a day and did not have too much time for the computer.

    If I was to include Hinduism and Buddhism here there would be too many differences. I feel it is best to take Judaism and the cults it spawned first. Maybe you could do The Hindu and Buddhist religions?

    Best Ras



    flowerchilde
    I think you're right about the Judaism and Christian being closely related.. and Hindu and Buddhism is more close to one another..

    As to your points, that all lands would have similar legends/memories they passed down is not surprising..

    Baal was the fire 'god' people burned children to..

    Man has always sought and groped, concerning 'life after death'.. And, man has always sought to worship.. And of course every system has been changed, and has even been exploited..


    Gnosisquest

    Flowerchilde: Baal was never a fire God, I don't know where you got that information from but it is a grave error. Baal was the God of life much like Dumuzi/Tammuz which spent half the year on earth and half the year in the underworld for they needed rain also.

    No child sacrifices were ever made to the God Baal either, Baal was a Canaanite God and the Canaanites did not sacrifice children to any of their Gods.

    The reason man has always sought to understand the hereafter has to do with the fact that there is more to us than the physical and it is that "more" which man has sought to find.

    Ras



    . flowerchilde
    Baal was the fertility god whose sacrifices (often human) were offered by fire.. fertility gods were notorious for their human sacrifices to bring the rains/fertility.. this is other than the mass sacrifices of egypt and mesopotamia when a king or noble's servants and/or household were sacrificed to go with them in their death.. Baal was one of the many fierce city-god system, of which father Abraham was "called out of".


    Gnosisquest

    Flowerchilde: Where do you get the information regarding these sacrifices?

    There are no records in any archeological material which I am aware of where children were sacrificed to Baal.

    The only ancient God of renown that demanded child sacrifice was Moloch. Moloch was not known by anyone other than the Israelites from any record so when the Israelites in for example Exodus 13:1,2 states that every first born male whether human or animal belongs to him. Judges 11:29-40 we see Jephtah forced to sacrifice his daughter to the Judaic God. This is indicative to many that Moloch was another name for YHWH; the one employed by him when the children were sacrificed to him.

    Baal II from Ugarit dates from about 3300 years ago; in it we see Baal,s wife rant in much the same fashion as Revelations about the killings of multitudes but it is a parable just reflecting her feelings and not an actual event.

    The only place I have seen children sacrificed to Baal has been in smear campaigns by dishonest evangelists.

    Ras



  2. manong05

    You are obviously well read and articulate. However you have brought up the discussion to a level where most mylotters are not in the position to react for not having an access to Near Eastern texts and other ancient literatures to refute your statements.

    These are good materials for apologists who I'm sure have their ready answers.

    As a layman, I believe that discussions on the historicity and origin will not result to a definitive conclusion enough to shatter one's belief.

    Protestant apologists have tried their best to expose the evils of papacy by citing historical records of popes killing each other and several conspiracies in the papacy but to no avail. Roman Catholic doctrines are well ingrained in the lives of the Catholics and attacks on the past personalities in it's history and development do not mean anything to them.

    In the same vein, refutations of Great Religions of the world will suffer the same fate. People have drawn a line between what they believe and who and where their beliefs came from. You can question the origins and historicity but not the truth of their religions. "Truths" that are deeply ingrained in the religious consciousness of the adherents.

    To most, people who are refuting other beliefs are nothing more than iconoclasts teaching them how to think.

    Your arguments in the use of the tetragrammaton Yod He VaV He and El will not go anywhere in the minds of believers in the Judeo-Christian tradition. God is more than the names called Him whether Yahweh, Elohim, El Shaddai, Adonai, El Elyon etc. Or whether they were used by other ancient religions or not is immaterial.

    I admire your knowledge and enthusiasm to bring the issue in front of the people to think about. You actually drove me back to my library and open my books that are already collecting dusts.
    Cheers!

    Gnosisquest

    Thank you for your reply manong.

    I do not desire to get people to abandon their beliefs, they can believe as they desire. All I would like to see happen is that parents stop telling their children what to believe; I want to see a termination of the scare tactics employed to make children waste away behind a blind religion.

    The apologists when confronted with these remarks state that these things have been known for a long time as if that refutes the material. They have no refutation but by turning a blind eye they manage to get people to look away.

    The other reason is terrorism; people are not going to sacrifice their lives as readily for some religious fanatic when they know chances are they got the religion all wrong.

    Best ras


    manong05

    I agree with your points wholeheartedly specially on parents forcing their religion on their chilren. I believe this is wrong.

    I also read an article 5 years ago that said communism is no longer a threat to democracy but it is the rise of religious fanaticism particularly muslim extremists and I see it happening today and the increase of terrorism all over the world is scary. All of these are done in the name of religion.

    Good points there Ras! You're doing a great job.

    surfincypherz

    I too think that forcing children to adopt a religion is wrong. It is little more than a way to control the minds of a child, yet those perpetuating have long forgotten or never knew that mind control is pretty much all it is.
    One of my hobbies is the study of Psychohistory which I feel fairly accurately lays out the connections between this and so many other problems throughout history.


    Gnosisquest

    Psychohistory; now that sounds like a very interesting study.

    Best ras



    TheGreatWhiteBuffalo

    Take away the building and the anti-god and what remains?

    One GOD that is pure and holy and that is where the truth is...

    If we can teach this we have a chance.
    ..




    ipissakusina
    you got a very good point there manong, and i also agree that FORCING parents' religion to their children is wrong, but remember the bible gives Parents an obligation of teaching their children the word of God, how to worship god as how the bible describe it. The Roman Catholic Church may seem not forcing children, in present, because they were "baptized" in that religion without them knowing; don't you think this is no different from forcing?

    as for refuting religions, let's say that a certain religion is false & refutable, do you have any plan or recommnedation of what the true religion is, Gnosisquest?


    Gnosisquest

    The truth will be unveiled as we move on.

    ras


    ipissakusina

    move on... so may people before you did it already... and there are also people just like you who always refute them.



  3. tarachand

    Rebirth - without memories of the previous lives is the answer provided by Hinduism and its offshoots-Buddhism and other sects, to the Egyptians question on afterlife consequences.

    As far as Baal or EL are concerned, I thought that they dated back to around 7-8000 BC or thereabouts. El may have been concieved by human imagination even earlier?


    . Chiang_Mai_boy

    Actually the Buddha taught nothing about rebirth. He in fact urged his followers not to concern them selves with any possible next lives but to concern themselves with how they live this one. It was only later that the concept of reincarnation entered Buddhism when its proponents realized they were in a non-completive position with religions that promised an afterlife.

    . Gnosisquest

    You are correct; El may well go back to 7-8000 BCE among the Canaanites. The first Judaic biblical legends are from the Sumerians and the written records of those are the Sumerian tales from about 4000 years ago.

    Best ras



  4. jricbt

    Very nice discussion, I will be watching it closely, very interesting indeed.

    Waiting for the continuation.


    Gnosisquest

    Thank you JR; glad to hear it for this exposure will take some time as I have to cut it into segments.

    Getting some positive input makes me sure it is worth my effort.

    Best Ras



  5. surfincypherz

    Fascinating, and it explains why this Jewish God was so interested in waging war with so many others.
    I think your argument does add credence to their religious history not being what they believe it to be. But, I can not say that this refutes the heart of that religion itself.
    I feel that the heart of any religion is in the imaginations power to reach beyond the known facts. This in mind it means that religion should not be about facts! I see religion as a contemplative model and semi-practical model for how to live ones life not something to be confused with reality.
    It is unfortunate the religion is used as an irrefutable statement of fact. To me God or Gods are simply mental constructs to be used to stretch the faculties of the mind, and perhaps this one of the originally intended uses for the concept of God.

    So, arguing that the historical facts are not what the religious authorities claim them to be does not refute the essence of what religion is about. But, to me the essence of what religion is about should be argued openly as a tool to develop our potential not as a set in stone belief with which to define the truth.



    Gnosisquest

    Good comment; the point of my argument is that since it is not an accurate history it should not be taught as fact.

    If religion of all denomination is taught as way's to lead life they can be constructively argued and improved on. This is what is required for mankind to advance.

    Best ras



  6. redyellowblackdog

    You are certainly off to a good start with this. Looking forward to the actual "meat" of the series.

    I hope my response provides encouragement for what is surely going to be an arduous endeavor.


    Gnosisquest

    Thank you Red; I'll get going by this afternoon I hope.
    Your words are encouraging, now is it true that I can judge the success by how low the Christians can drive my impending star rating?

    Best ras



    redyellowblackdog

    LOL.... Do you not remember that my star was a #9 when I responded the first time to one of your posts? Also, that I agreed with you? In fact, it was the next morning that my star number began dropping.

    What do you think is the answer to your question?

    To be fair, I don't think I have only iritated Christians. I have irked a few Muslims in my time. There have been other groups that sometimes aren't happy with me either, like democrats and republicans.

    So, I think it is safe to say that between the religious and the political zealots, neither you or I need worry about the burden of trying to be humble while at the same time enjoying the high esteem and honor of having a perfect #10 star rating at myLot!



    Gnosisquest

    Look at it this way Red; if we spoke only to please our message would be empty.

    Flattering others to make them think well of me would make me feel like a hypocrite, I would far rather be unpopular and speak from the heart.

    Best ras



  7. . ipissakusina

    the tetragrammaton, ????, yes as you can see in the picture, refers to personal name of GOd, how it's originally pronounced is totally lost, but more preferred to pronounce as Yahweh in Hebrew and is translated Jehovah in English.
    Jehovah's name was very well known in ancient times, that even those who are non-worshippers fear Him and know that He is the True God, or if not a powerful God.
    The bible has so many accounts about the battle of true worship to Baal. Because the Caanites were not believing to Jehovah, that manuscript that you qouted might just telling what they thought about Jehovah, a myth that has no proof, a fairy tale of ancient civilazation. Of course, because they hated the God of Hebrews, they use that name to the lowest god, and put their God to highest position, Baal. But i believe that Yammu is different to Jehovah or Yahweh.


    Gnosisquest

    Thank you Ipissakusina:

    The battles described in the Bible reflect the battles between Baal and Yammu twice a year. These were allegorical by the Babylonians, yet interpreted as factual by the Israelites.

    Baal would win the battle every spring so that his job as fertility God could be completer. Yammu/Mot would win every fall bringing Baal down to the underworld where he would produce water for the poor souls that were under Yammu/Jehovah/Mot.

    Yammu fits the description perfectly of Jehovah, same personality, same legends about him and Jehovah.

    To answer your earlier question about the basic truth behind it all; yes I do have the answer and it is far closer to home than somewhere out there or back there somewhere.

    Best regards ras



  8. Auxarcer

    So...what is the name of the Almighty and what is the one true religion? Or what exactly are you saying?


    Gnosisquest

    In order to find out exactly what I am saying now after you have read the first part of the refutation go to the second.

    ras



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