Refutation of current religions part II Early Genesis

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Gnosisquest

Genesis is the Babylonian record of early history. According to Russel Gmirkin in his book Berossus Genesis, Merneptah Exodus the Israelites got their entire Genesis account from the Babylonian historian Berossus which is quite possible. Berossus was a Babylonian historian wrote his histories in 278 which fit well with the origins of Judaism.

The formation of man from clay is not Judaic; the same motif is also found in the creation of man from booth the Sumerian and Egyptian accounts. In the Sumerian account which came down to Berossus it was the Sumerian Gods Enki and Ninhursag that created man in order to alleviate the Gods from the burden of tilling the soil. During the creation the Gods celebrated, got drunk and that accounts for our flaws rather than sin.

Eden is Sumerian and means "Garden in the desert", any traveler coming in from the desert seeing the rich land by the rivers indeed do see a garden.

The tale about Eden which we have in the Bible is the tale from Enki's garden at his temple. In this garden there were youths which tilled the soil. Once the youth reached puberty there would be other things for them to do but they would no longer be eligible to work at Enki's garden. The expulsion from the garden would have been a little less dramatic than the Bible implies. The snake was of course the male and the fruit, well you get the picture.

The tale from Genesis which most adversely affected humanity was the tale of Eve.
The Sumerian original has Enki being tricked into eating some sacred trees which had been planted by Ninhursag. When the goddess learns of this she becomes furious and cast a curse on Enki and some of his body parts begin to fail.

The Gods eventually find Ninhursag who had hid so the Gods can't talk her into healing Enki. She returns and creates eight healing deities to heal the failing body parts. One of these body parts was the rib and the deity created to heal it was Nintil. Nintil is a play on words; in Sumerian it means "Lady of the Rib" as well as "She who makes live". The Hebrew Eve also means "She who makes live", but the Hebrews made her the lady of the rib in an entirely different manner than the Sumerians.

The rift between the sexes due to this aberration of tongues has cost females throughout the Christian era.

The biblical hero which was the first man great in the eyes of the Lord was Gilgamesh; the order of the kings is the same in the Babylonian retelling as it is in the Sumerian and Hebrew.

Abraham's family came from Ur which explains the great ages of the early biblical patriarchs. Ur was one of the seats of the Moon God as was Haran. Divide the ages by twelve and you find out how old these people were in years rather than months.

The confusion of tongues was also a Sumerian Babylonian motif; their tale differs from the biblical tale in that it was agreement which no longer reigned. Different languages had existed long before this time.

Next we will look at the flood.

Best ras

1. Chiang_Mai_boy
   
   I, personally, like the creation myth of the Samoans. There primary and supreme god is named Tangaroa. He created the world by thinking about it.
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   Thank you Chiang; that story sounds more likely to be true than the one here mentioned.
   
   The fact is that the Judaic God is depicted as a God which exists in the physical universe. No God which is a part of the physical universe could possibly have created it.
   
   Best ras

   
   
   
   

   TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
   Well the exception would be that GOD created GOD...?
   
   The universe and all in the universe is part of GOD. But you could have expected that kind of a comment from me... LOL...

   
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   Yes Gary (smile).

   
   
   
   

   flowerchilde
   'God" is the great spirit and spark of Life..
   
   and he did create the world by thinking it.. as thinking comes before saying.. or doing..
   
   See how much these handed down memories of the nations have in common.. even though handed down through human hands.. and embellished..
   
   It's not matter that is evil.. A baseball bat is not evil because it consists of matter. When a hand takes it to slug someone.. that is evil.. This life is the lesson of good and evil.. a whole new world/tree which 'came to be' when God endowed thinking ability.





2. TheGreatWhiteBuffalo (1495) ranked 571 out of 6,244 in religion 4 years ago
   I have made similar conclusions in the past, the one thing that I am not quite understanding is how you wrote about the Tower of Babel, they couldn't understand each other before and after, is actually more plausible as they probably came together in one place and could translate in one city or format that all could understand. At a time that division occurred the ability to work together was destroyed.
   
   Looking at technology today we have more or less overcome linguistic barriers... We have the power to communicate and dialogue and still we find a reason to go to war?
   
   Now that I don't get...
   
   We could resolve our differences, but we do not choose to because our leaders are to thick skinned or brain dead to figure out a solution to our global problems.
   
   The only problem we have today is our leaders... Along with these people that need to attend churches and worship and spread the worship of Satan...
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   Was my post so unclear that you did not understand that there was no confusion of language?
   
   What the god Enlil saw to, was that the universal harmony among humans was altered.
   
   Best ras

   
   
   

   flowerchilde
   It's not just the politicians and leaders which bicker and devalue one an other's concerns and opinions.. and even become aggressive..
   
   I agree if you are saying the God who goes along with "hell" more closely resembles a satan, than the benevolent great spirit and spark of life.. "hell" is a mistranslation which blasphemes the God everyday..
   
   Your statement about overcoming linguistic barriers actually fits very closely with what is recorded about the confusing of the languages.. it was said "they are of one language, and what will they not be able to accomplish?" -[likely the destruction of the world! so it was greatly delayed, as this is a letting choice/free-will run its course.. It's a drama, a lesson, one unavoidable, if there are to be rational creatures..
   :))

   
   
   
   TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
   Certainly there was no confusion of language and your post was very clear about that... :) LOL
   
   You understood me and we speak the same language, there was never a communication issue...
   
   Imagine if GOD spoke and we wrote?
   
   And the reader interpretted something completly out of context.
   
   What a false witness that would be!
   
   I think we just found the anti-christ, a lack of understanding.
   
   Thou shall not kill...
   
   Go forth and multiply and take care of my creation.
   
   Parts of the Bible and Quaran ring true, parts contradict and are set and bound in complete hypocrisy.
   
   A person with the ability to think would know!
   
   Now who has stolen our freedom to think? Who is supressing the truth?
   
   I think it is the Neo Nazi Calvanist Christian Conservatives they are equal in contempt as the Islamic fundamentalists that tote weapons to threaten and intimidate.
   
   All organized religions are culpable for creating a culture of violence, they all work together hand in hand.
   
   Spirituality is an individual experience and should not be organized in any structure such as a building with walls and foundations.
   
   Religion takes place with in the heart and you can find your path when surrounding yourself with truly religious individuals that know a path to GOD through the creation and the creators.
   
   GOD the parents of religion we know them by their love.





3. Thomas73
   I would like to comment on the 'made of clay' bit. This is to me quite puzzling, as a recent discovery -- about 10 or 15 years ago -- indicates that clay contains self-replicating templates and that these silica-based structures may have given rise to organic self-replicating molecules (possibly RNA).
   
   This 'life from a rock' theory rejoins the old explanation that life arose from clay, except that the intervention of a god is not necessary. That makes sense to me, but how could our forebears have known about it? Coincidence?
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   Indeed Thomas; how could they have known?
   
   The Sumerians stated we came out of the water; the Gnostics stated our origin was apart from time/space.
   
   The Viking said we could get reborn, drink, frolic and get killed all over again, were they describing a reincarnation on earth?
   
   It does look like there are answers somewhere and what is most interesting to me is a postulate that life originated around a second generation sun. Life on a planet was advanced enough to exist independent of bodies.
   
   Could that be why the Egyptians in ancient times went to the stars after death?
   
   Best ras





4. flowerchilde
   If you have a memory and I have a memory (of the same thing) one of us writing it down first, does not mean the second one doing so plagiarized.. These accounts are the handed down memories.. Except Moses is said to have received his memory/account as "inspired by God".
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   In this case the Sumerians wrote down their legends 3500 years BC.
   
   The book "Berossus Genesis Merneptah Exodus" gives these two ancient historians as sources for the Jewish translations which created the first two chapters of the Bible. They booth wrote the material in the fourth century BCE.
   
   There is no evidence that anything in the Bible was written even that early so to say the material written 3500 BCE=the material written more than 3000 years later is absurd.
   
   Ras





5. xd14keilrisker
   I think that this is a proof that the Bible creation is true because many myths and legend sprang up from the same story. I think they just didn't hear the real story or its an old, old story that it miss some important details, so they made it up themselves just to say that it is true and actually happened. Do you think?
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   I don't think that is quite accurate for the simple reason that the biblical rendition of the story was written down more than 3000 years after the original and the biblical rendition indicates extensive borrowings from another copy by a Babylonian who wrote in the fourth century BCE.

   
   
   xd14keilrisker
   You mean, the Bible authors just borrowed it from the myths and legends. But it is said that the Bible is inspired by God. What do you say to that?
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   I say there is absolutely no evidence that anything in the Bible is inspired by God. For that reason and because the contradictions are so numerous I say it is obvious that the only divinity in the OT is that of the divine authors that rewrote ancient legends in their own words.

   
   
   xd14keilrisker
   So what's the original story?
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   The original story of which part of the Old Testament?
   
   The original story for most of Genesis comes from Sumer but is copied from "Babylonia" by Berossus.
   
   Exodus is a retelling of the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt with a touch of the Stockholm syndrome. Most of Exodus is compiled from an Egyptian history book by Merneptah.
   
   Solomon is most assuredly the Greek King Solon; Daniel is about the Babylonian King Nabonidus. The Angels are borrowed from Zoroastrians along with a Heaven that is "up there".
   
   Ras

   
   
   xd14keilrisker
   And where did you get that? Is there a proof that the OT authors just borrowed it from the names you've mentioned?
   
   xd14keilrisker
   And if you say Solomon is a greek king. Well, there are proofs that he's an Israelite, its in their history book. And Solomon is not just famous in the Middle East, he's famous in Africa too. And there are proofs to that.
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   Yes there is ample proof:
   
   Read for example "History begins in Sumer" written about 60 years ago by Prof S.N. Kramer. Read Egypt Canaan and Israel in Ancient times by Prof Donald B. Redford.
   Read Berossus/Genesis, Merneptah Exodus by Russel Gmirkin.
   
   These are just some of the examples and for your information the earliest record of Israelite history goes back only to 187 BCE.

   
   
   xd14keilrisker
   I'll try. What is BCE anyway? I thought it's BC.
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   BCE atands for Before Common Era and CE stands for Common Era. This replaces the more common BC and AD.

   
   
   xd14keilrisker
   I see. And who the hell invented that? Where did it come from?
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   This came from historians after they knew the fact Jesus could not have been born when it said he was and they understood he never existed as depicted in the Bible.

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A refutation of current religions, part I, introduction

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A refutation of current religions, part one, introduction
Gnosisquest

This refutation is of the prevailing religious institutions Yahwism, (Judaism) Islam and Christianity.

Yahwism spawned booth of these other religions and the entire basis of Yahwism is wrong.

Yahwism is the worship of the ancient God also referred to as YHWH. This God is first encountered among the ancient Shasu about 3400 years ago. To them YHWH was their chief deity, they were the tribe which had been given to YHWH also known as Yaw by the God El.

(See among other things "Egypt Canaan and Israel in Ancient Times" by Donald B. Redford).

This time in history was also the time of the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit in which enormous amounts of ancient manuscripts were found. Among these manuscripts, in Baal II there is related how the chief and father of all Gods except Baal called his son YHWH to him and El stated: "Your name shall no longer be Yaw, Yammu shall be your name. Yammu is very well known among researchers, he was the God that recruited souls to his underworld where he sought to trap them. He was also a jealous God as he was so ugly no female deity desired him.

Yammu fought the God Baal annually, Baal was the God of life and every spring he announced his coming with the first rain. Half of the year he spent in the underworld as the inhabitants there also needed to have their crops watered.

Yahwism deals with subjects which occurred about 4000 BC which are subjects Judaism had no relations with.

Judaism itself can be traced to 3-400 BC, not before. There is no material anywhere which would indicate anyone worshipped or believed as the Israelites did.

The Sumerians are dated to about 4000 BC as the earliest written material with a definite Sumerian tradition is dated to this time in history.
The Egyptians are dated to about 3500 BC as that is when the first distinctive Egyptian artifacts are discovered from. There is proof people lived in the Egyptian delta for millenniums prior to 3500 BC but as none of the artifacts can be positively linked with the Egyptian culture until 3500 that is when the culture is said to date from.

Since the first material which can be identified with the Israelites comes from 3-400 BC we can also say the Israelites date from that time.

Some people would say that the LXX version of the Bible date from that time, yet this is categorically false, as we shall see; LXX may well date to 3-400 AD, not BC.

The Egyptians stated about 4000 years ago: "If there is an afterlife will you spend eternity avoiding those you have wronged"? As you will see there are plenty who have been wronged due to these three religions we are about to discuss.

Best Ras

Chiang_Mai_boy
I missed you here yesterday. There are few supporters of logic and reason here and your absence was noted. This is an interesting introduction but leaves little to respond to yet. I would make one request, please include the Hindu and Buddhist religions in your discussion. There are other religious tredtions and belief systems that did not evolve in the mid east.




Gnosisquest
Thank you Chiang, this week I worked 10-14 hours a day and did not have too much time for the computer.

If I was to include Hinduism and Buddhism here there would be too many differences. I feel it is best to take Judaism and the cults it spawned first. Maybe you could do The Hindu and Buddhist religions?

Best Ras




flowerchilde
I think you're right about the Judaism and Christian being closely related.. and Hindu and Buddhism is more close to one another..

As to your points, that all lands would have similar legends/memories they passed down is not surprising..

Baal was the fire 'god' people burned children to..

Man has always sought and groped, concerning 'life after death'.. And, man has always sought to worship.. And of course every system has been changed, and has even been exploited..




Gnosisquest

Flowerchilde: Baal was never a fire God, I don't know where you got that information from but it is a grave error. Baal was the God of life much like Dumuzi/Tammuz which spent half the year on earth and half the year in the underworld for they needed rain also.

No child sacrifices were ever made to the God Baal either, Baal was a Canaanite God and the Canaanites did not sacrifice children to any of their Gods.

The reason man has always sought to understand the hereafter has to do with the fact that there is more to us than the physical and it is that "more" which man has sought to find.

Ras




. flowerchilde
Baal was the fertility god whose sacrifices (often human) were offered by fire.. fertility gods were notorious for their human sacrifices to bring the rains/fertility.. this is other than the mass sacrifices of egypt and mesopotamia when a king or noble's servants and/or household were sacrificed to go with them in their death.. Baal was one of the many fierce city-god system, of which father Abraham was "called out of".




Gnosisquest

Flowerchilde: Where do you get the information regarding these sacrifices?

There are no records in any archeological material which I am aware of where children were sacrificed to Baal.

The only ancient God of renown that demanded child sacrifice was Moloch. Moloch was not known by anyone other than the Israelites from any record so when the Israelites in for example Exodus 13:1,2 states that every first born male whether human or animal belongs to him. Judges 11:29-40 we see Jephtah forced to sacrifice his daughter to the Judaic God. This is indicative to many that Moloch was another name for YHWH; the one employed by him when the children were sacrificed to him.

Baal II from Ugarit dates from about 3300 years ago; in it we see Baal,s wife rant in much the same fashion as Revelations about the killings of multitudes but it is a parable just reflecting her feelings and not an actual event.

The only place I have seen children sacrificed to Baal has been in smear campaigns by dishonest evangelists.

Ras





1. manong05
   
   You are obviously well read and articulate. However you have brought up the discussion to a level where most mylotters are not in the position to react for not having an access to Near Eastern texts and other ancient literatures to refute your statements.
   
   These are good materials for apologists who I'm sure have their ready answers.
   
   As a layman, I believe that discussions on the historicity and origin will not result to a definitive conclusion enough to shatter one's belief.
   
   Protestant apologists have tried their best to expose the evils of papacy by citing historical records of popes killing each other and several conspiracies in the papacy but to no avail. Roman Catholic doctrines are well ingrained in the lives of the Catholics and attacks on the past personalities in it's history and development do not mean anything to them.
   
   In the same vein, refutations of Great Religions of the world will suffer the same fate. People have drawn a line between what they believe and who and where their beliefs came from. You can question the origins and historicity but not the truth of their religions. "Truths" that are deeply ingrained in the religious consciousness of the adherents.
   
   To most, people who are refuting other beliefs are nothing more than iconoclasts teaching them how to think.
   
   Your arguments in the use of the tetragrammaton Yod He VaV He and El will not go anywhere in the minds of believers in the Judeo-Christian tradition. God is more than the names called Him whether Yahweh, Elohim, El Shaddai, Adonai, El Elyon etc. Or whether they were used by other ancient religions or not is immaterial.
   
   I admire your knowledge and enthusiasm to bring the issue in front of the people to think about. You actually drove me back to my library and open my books that are already collecting dusts.
   Cheers!
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Thank you for your reply manong.
   
   I do not desire to get people to abandon their beliefs, they can believe as they desire. All I would like to see happen is that parents stop telling their children what to believe; I want to see a termination of the scare tactics employed to make children waste away behind a blind religion.
   
   The apologists when confronted with these remarks state that these things have been known for a long time as if that refutes the material. They have no refutation but by turning a blind eye they manage to get people to look away.
   
   The other reason is terrorism; people are not going to sacrifice their lives as readily for some religious fanatic when they know chances are they got the religion all wrong.
   
   Best ras

   
   
   manong05
   
   I agree with your points wholeheartedly specially on parents forcing their religion on their chilren. I believe this is wrong.
   
   I also read an article 5 years ago that said communism is no longer a threat to democracy but it is the rise of religious fanaticism particularly muslim extremists and I see it happening today and the increase of terrorism all over the world is scary. All of these are done in the name of religion.
   
   Good points there Ras! You're doing a great job.
   
   surfincypherz
   
   I too think that forcing children to adopt a religion is wrong. It is little more than a way to control the minds of a child, yet those perpetuating have long forgotten or never knew that mind control is pretty much all it is.
   One of my hobbies is the study of Psychohistory which I feel fairly accurately lays out the connections between this and so many other problems throughout history.
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Psychohistory; now that sounds like a very interesting study.
   
   Best ras

   
   
   
   

   TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
   
   Take away the building and the anti-god and what remains?
   
   One GOD that is pure and holy and that is where the truth is...
   
   If we can teach this we have a chance.

   ..

   
   
   
   
   ipissakusina
   you got a very good point there manong, and i also agree that FORCING parents' religion to their children is wrong, but remember the bible gives Parents an obligation of teaching their children the word of God, how to worship god as how the bible describe it. The Roman Catholic Church may seem not forcing children, in present, because they were "baptized" in that religion without them knowing; don't you think this is no different from forcing?
   
   as for refuting religions, let's say that a certain religion is false & refutable, do you have any plan or recommnedation of what the true religion is, Gnosisquest?
   
   

   
   Gnosisquest
   
   The truth will be unveiled as we move on.
   
   ras

   
   
   ipissakusina
   
   move on... so may people before you did it already... and there are also people just like you who always refute them.




2. tarachand
   
   Rebirth - without memories of the previous lives is the answer provided by Hinduism and its offshoots-Buddhism and other sects, to the Egyptians question on afterlife consequences.
   
   As far as Baal or EL are concerned, I thought that they dated back to around 7-8000 BC or thereabouts. El may have been concieved by human imagination even earlier?
   
   
   . Chiang_Mai_boy
   
   Actually the Buddha taught nothing about rebirth. He in fact urged his followers not to concern them selves with any possible next lives but to concern themselves with how they live this one. It was only later that the concept of reincarnation entered Buddhism when its proponents realized they were in a non-completive position with religions that promised an afterlife.
   
   

   . Gnosisquest
   
   You are correct; El may well go back to 7-8000 BCE among the Canaanites. The first Judaic biblical legends are from the Sumerians and the written records of those are the Sumerian tales from about 4000 years ago.
   
   Best ras





3. jricbt
   
   Very nice discussion, I will be watching it closely, very interesting indeed.
   
   Waiting for the continuation.
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Thank you JR; glad to hear it for this exposure will take some time as I have to cut it into segments.
   
   Getting some positive input makes me sure it is worth my effort.
   
   Best Ras





4. surfincypherz
   
   Fascinating, and it explains why this Jewish God was so interested in waging war with so many others.
   I think your argument does add credence to their religious history not being what they believe it to be. But, I can not say that this refutes the heart of that religion itself.
   I feel that the heart of any religion is in the imaginations power to reach beyond the known facts. This in mind it means that religion should not be about facts! I see religion as a contemplative model and semi-practical model for how to live ones life not something to be confused with reality.
   It is unfortunate the religion is used as an irrefutable statement of fact. To me God or Gods are simply mental constructs to be used to stretch the faculties of the mind, and perhaps this one of the originally intended uses for the concept of God.
   
   So, arguing that the historical facts are not what the religious authorities claim them to be does not refute the essence of what religion is about. But, to me the essence of what religion is about should be argued openly as a tool to develop our potential not as a set in stone belief with which to define the truth.
   
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Good comment; the point of my argument is that since it is not an accurate history it should not be taught as fact.
   
   If religion of all denomination is taught as way's to lead life they can be constructively argued and improved on. This is what is required for mankind to advance.
   
   Best ras





5. redyellowblackdog
   
   You are certainly off to a good start with this. Looking forward to the actual "meat" of the series.
   
   I hope my response provides encouragement for what is surely going to be an arduous endeavor.
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Thank you Red; I'll get going by this afternoon I hope.
   Your words are encouraging, now is it true that I can judge the success by how low the Christians can drive my impending star rating?
   
   Best ras

   
   
   
   redyellowblackdog
   
   LOL.... Do you not remember that my star was a #9 when I responded the first time to one of your posts? Also, that I agreed with you? In fact, it was the next morning that my star number began dropping.
   
   What do you think is the answer to your question?
   
   To be fair, I don't think I have only iritated Christians. I have irked a few Muslims in my time. There have been other groups that sometimes aren't happy with me either, like democrats and republicans.
   
   So, I think it is safe to say that between the religious and the political zealots, neither you or I need worry about the burden of trying to be humble while at the same time enjoying the high esteem and honor of having a perfect #10 star rating at myLot!
   
   
   

   
   Gnosisquest
   
   Look at it this way Red; if we spoke only to please our message would be empty.
   
   Flattering others to make them think well of me would make me feel like a hypocrite, I would far rather be unpopular and speak from the heart.
   
   Best ras





6. . ipissakusina
   
   the tetragrammaton, ????, yes as you can see in the picture, refers to personal name of GOd, how it's originally pronounced is totally lost, but more preferred to pronounce as Yahweh in Hebrew and is translated Jehovah in English.
   Jehovah's name was very well known in ancient times, that even those who are non-worshippers fear Him and know that He is the True God, or if not a powerful God.
   The bible has so many accounts about the battle of true worship to Baal. Because the Caanites were not believing to Jehovah, that manuscript that you qouted might just telling what they thought about Jehovah, a myth that has no proof, a fairy tale of ancient civilazation. Of course, because they hated the God of Hebrews, they use that name to the lowest god, and put their God to highest position, Baal. But i believe that Yammu is different to Jehovah or Yahweh.
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   Thank you Ipissakusina:
   
   The battles described in the Bible reflect the battles between Baal and Yammu twice a year. These were allegorical by the Babylonians, yet interpreted as factual by the Israelites.
   
   Baal would win the battle every spring so that his job as fertility God could be completer. Yammu/Mot would win every fall bringing Baal down to the underworld where he would produce water for the poor souls that were under Yammu/Jehovah/Mot.
   
   Yammu fits the description perfectly of Jehovah, same personality, same legends about him and Jehovah.
   
   To answer your earlier question about the basic truth behind it all; yes I do have the answer and it is far closer to home than somewhere out there or back there somewhere.
   
   Best regards ras





7. Auxarcer
   
   So...what is the name of the Almighty and what is the one true religion? Or what exactly are you saying?
   
   
   

   Gnosisquest
   
   In order to find out exactly what I am saying now after you have read the first part of the refutation go to the second.
   
   ras

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Belief

TheGreatWhiteBuffalo Oct 01, 2009; 10:27pm

Belief

What will make you believe, of things that are seen or things beyond the imagination, things of the miraculous and yet unexplainable?

Do you need proof?
Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary (Thinking of Linking, but not sure to where... )


Sean McKenzie Oct 02, 2009; 06:40am

Re: Belief

Hi Gary,
I go with my intuition and experience now.

Sean


Denise Oct 02, 2009; 06:21pm

Re: Belief

I've been blessed with a wonderful faith and trust towards the Almighty, but these past few months have worn me down both physically and emotionally.

My daughter is a single mom with two young daughtetrs who cannot find a job (not too many to find in the states!) and now has been told her small check that she receves from the state is stopping. So, I have trusted and believed with all my heart that something (I have no attachment to whatever it is) will come to her; otherwise, she does not have the means to even keep her dwelling.

Know what's hard for me? My husband and I filed bankruptcy not too long ago so we canot help her. It's SOOOO hard. I want to trust that everything will be alright, but it is SO hard to believe that things will fall together.

Does anyone have words of wisdom for me?

Blessings, Denisse


Quiplet Oct 03, 2009; 02:48pm

Re: Belief

Depending upon her skills, she may be able to apply for a federal position, or a state/local job. Being a mother of two children, I doubt she has a lot of time for volunteerism, but that not only is good for the Spirit, it is also a great way to gain experience and network with established non-profit or for-profit businesses. And the resume shines brightly with a volunteer position listed.

Also, there are often internship jobs available for those who are willing to receive a small compensation for a greater reward down the road. At any rate, this will be a challenge. Best of Belief!

Quiplet Oct 03, 2009; 02:57pm

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
I have a great imagination and have enjoyed daydreaming which has given me insight - so do I need proof? Well, my dear, that depends upon what you mean. If you are talking about psychic abilities I need no proof from you. If you are speaking of clouds turning into cotton candy, I'll need some sugar, Honey

.

TheGreatWhiteBuffalo Oct 03, 2009; 03:22pm

Re: Belief

Sugar and Honey,

Your words of advice are straight on, but what more needs to be said? The economy is taking a real nose dive as the result of negative forces and this will be the beginning. There are many people who will suffer. The only way to work our way out of this problem is to become workers with the Earth, instead of against the Earth. We need to pull together and the answer is not in giving but in teaching, (for the belief that many have is that they require money to survive,) what they need is love and to work with family together as one unit. We have practiced separation instead of inclusion. Our society has failed the individuals greatly.

There are many aspects of how our lives need others, and to think this coming from me the one shunned by family and despised by many. Yet I have won many hearts and have many friends who know that I am not about hurting people but warning and protecting people from the hurt that they will cause to their own person, family and neighbors. The result of building and putting faith into that which is false. Money is false as money has no power like that of GOD so Money while currently very powerful is a false power, the real power exists in the proper use of money for good. Beliefs in false practices also have the same power as money.

I could expand my thoughts greatly, but this is enough to consider for now, maybe others can join in and this will be a seed thought, a catalyst or crystalline moment... ?

Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary (Thinking of Linking, but not sure to where... )

TheGreatWhiteBuffalo Oct 03, 2009; 03:30pm

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by Denise
Hi Denise,

I just made a comment or post including thoughts for you to ponder.

Can you see a light at the end of the tunnel and it is the light of day not a train coming through? For if you do you will find that the answer is in you and your husband working together with your children and grandchildren.

You have not given me anything to say what you are doing is right or wrong, I'm just saying that as a family unit you all have to pull together, jobs are not easy to find, this will be the trend for quite a long time as the negative energy flows and prevents our community to grow.

How do we stop the negative energy?

Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary (Thinking of Linking, but not sure to where... )


FoxInTheSpace Oct 03, 2009; 11:34pm

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by Denise
I have a friend who encourages me to use the power of positive belief constantly. I do believe that it can work, but there are some things that I'm not sure it can work with. He believes that it can work for everything and it seems to for him... Anyway, when I was looking for a job during the summer he told me the story of how he turned his guitar teaching business into a successful one.

During the first few months that he started teaching hardly ANYONE called for lessons. Then he read some thing or listened to some tape on the power of positive thought and so he figured he would give it a try. During the first month not too much changed because he was just starting and he didn't completely believe it. Then he started believing that 5 new people would call for lessons every day and then that second month at least 5 people called every day for lessons (of course I'm sure he worked on advertising a bunch too), but they wouldn't sign up. So then he started believing that 5 new people would call every day AND sign up! And sure enough during that third month his schedule was completely booked and it's been that way ever since.

So I took the same approach. I figured, "why not?!" I know the power that belief has when other people believe things so why not believe and then see what happens? So I did. I didn't believe I could get a job during the summer because in august I was going on three vacations in a row and I didn't think anyone would want to hire me since I would need three weeks off immediately haha. But I believed that when I got back I would get a job. Three days after I got back I found a place that was hiring (which had been a problem the whole summer!) and then two days later I got the job. Belief that a job offer will come this week or next week could actually influence it to happen. Who knows?!

It is the times of great discomfort that can teach us the most valuable lessons. Spirit is constantly overflowing within you and all around you. Breathe deep and with awareness and you will find that you had the strength and grace to carry on all along. =)

namaste


Quiplet Oct 04, 2009; 02:24am

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by TheGreatWhiteBuffalo
Thought you might like to see this: Science of Premonition - Dr. Dossey. Link backwards on this website to many free interesting http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/members/ldossey.htm video interviews Dr. Dossey video interview about Premonitions Huffington Post


Sean McKenzie Oct 04, 2009; 07:43am

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by Denise
Hi Denise,

I am trying not to think too much ...

You know, we can experience one disappointment and anxiety ridden threat after another - month after month, year after year, decade after decade. Some people have bad days but I have had bad decades. :O)

This is the thing: At some point after being traumatized again and again, we realize radical detachment. Within us is a deep and vast calm just about no matter what.

When we look at Jesus or Buddha, we see they had difficulties but some well known people make many other people feel that if they have difficulties it is because something is wrong with them or they are doing something wrong or they can do this or that and things will change.

In essence, we don't have much control if any over the government or society. We only have the chance to realize our internal goodness.

Looking at you and your husband, I see two such Beautiful people! Thank youfor allowing me to witness two very beautiful spiritual beings!

Sean


TheGreatWhiteBuffalo Oct 04, 2009; 01:32pm

Re: Belief

I like how you put that Sean,

Just be and let the world come to you...


Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary (Thinking of Linking, but not sure to where... )


TheGreatWhiteBuffalo Oct 04, 2009; 01:40pm

Re: Belief

In reply to this post by Quiplet
Quiplet that is a wonderful link, I listened to a small portion of the story, and found it very revealing quite interesting and I am sad that I can't listen to the whole documentary.

Wow!

Good stuff... :)
Peace and Blessings, Sincerely, Gary (Thinking of Linking, but not sure to where... )

Two Paths

Which Path are you on?

One path leads to--->

Life...The other leads to--->Death

One path is...

True...The other is a........... Lie

One path...

Builds Up.......................Tears Down
Encourages........|............Insults.......
Teaches.......___|___......Opresses....
Exposes.............|............Cheats.......
Gives..................|............Takes Away
Respect..............|............Disrespects
Includes..........................Excludes....
Communication........Excommunication
Positive...........................Negative....
Good...............................Evil...........

The Power of Love is to Live Rich

Is the framework Solid and True?

Justice = Zero or No Evil which is Good

The Burden is light and the light exposes the darkness

The weight of the world is Abuse

Abuse is to force someone to carry a heavy burden or heart

Abuse is to violate the innocent

Which Path do you choose to follow?
Which path brings about healing?

The voice of GOD to Christians

Now that they have sufficiently revealed that they can not fathom a progression to theirs or any religion, and insist that the same ole' is good for everyone then I assume that they will follow their fundamental view to their death.

Suicide is not painless emotional harm hurts as much or sometimes more than physical harm and produces physical harm. Yet they refuse to see the harm that the Christian religion causes as they call good bad and bad good.

For what am I?

Who has the power To see the progression
To be creative To structure
To reveal To stand
Truth By GOD

I asked them to show us the face of their GOD,
I asked to see the face of the Devil or Satan,

They revealed that Progressive Christians have nothing, in fact they have revealed nothing except that a sinner should die. Should I follow the beliefs of them where all sinners should die and that would violate my pure and holy nature, they prove that they know me not!

They have missed the Mark and have refused to appropriately explain the errors that exist.

The Elite are not the Children of GOD who have secured GOD's blessings. Not all of the poor are cursed by GOD. We could end poverty and this has not yet been addressed and why it is important.

How can we end poverty?

How can we hold others accountable?

What are the tools used to make sure that the truth is being told?

We do have the power to cure and heal a lot of the problems in our society, if only?

The focus should be on the teachings, those teachings that help others and lead to life for all and reflect perfect justice.

The government shall be upon their heads, because the leadership is in charge of having the responsibility to make sure that an injustice is not taking root. An injustice built upon lies.

The Church is a source of a curse,

The word of GOD is in the Bible but the Bible is not the complete inerrant word and work of GOD!

The Word of GOD exists, as we exist, we know!

Follow the Truth and be set free,

Know Love,

Know?

GOD the GODDESS/GOD

For Peace and Blessings,

Sincerely,

GOD

Purecurosity you don't want to be saved looking like this.

1/1/2010 3:54:35 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

trippy_hare
Over 1,000 Posts (1,021)
Arvada, CO
age: 27

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Somehow I'm not surprised in the least.

1/1/2010 3:58:06 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

shakti
Over 2,000 Posts (2,632)
Red Deer, AB
age: 36

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joined: Jan. 2008

P'raps turnabout is fairplay?

1/1/2010 4:55:16 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

tgwb_gary
Over 1,000 Posts (1,058)
Quakertown, PA
age: 48

view: posts | threads
joined: Nov. 2009

First off the topic is about finding an unbiased view, has the OP actually engaged any of what I have written?

The conversation had gone off track and I apologized to the OP for also being part of that diversion even though it is quite humorous.

As for getting back on topic why not if the OP wants to share more than what has already been shared I'm here to write back and forth.

Of course, if you're looking to start the new year off on the wrong foot, and you want to be that way, then have it your way.

I don't like fighting for I'm a lover and you know there isn't any one of us that likes being cornered.

The title of the forum is called Religion, we all have our beliefs, and I am the bridge between those beliefs. I'm exceptional.

You want something different?

1/1/2010 5:00:11 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

shakti
Over 2,000 Posts (2,632)
Red Deer, AB
age: 36

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joined: Jan. 2008


Quote from tgwb_gary:
First off the topic is about finding an unbiased view, has the OP actually engaged any of what I have written?

Why would he? It has no relation to what he started the thread about, lol..

Of course, if you're looking to start the new year off on the wrong foot, and you want to be that way, then have it your way.

Are you referring to me here?

The title of the forum is called Religion, we all have our beliefs, and I am the bridge between those beliefs. I'm exceptional.

Aahahahahahahaha!!

Grandiose, tangential, ideas of reference, persecutory delusions.. it's all adding up gary and it aint pretty!

1/1/2010 5:01:01 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

trippy_hare
Over 1,000 Posts (1,021)
Arvada, CO
age: 27

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joined: Jun. 2009

Beepbeepboopbeepboopboopbeep.

That's binary. It means "1101001".

1/1/2010 5:02:33 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

dunrich2
Over 2,000 Posts (3,036)
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!

view: posts | threads
joined: May. 2009


Aahahahahahahaha!!

Grandiose, tangential, ideas of reference, persecutory delusions.. it's all adding up gary and it aint pretty!


You got that right Shakti.

Yea, so much narcissim before breakfast is hard on the appetite.



[Edited 1/1/2010 5:03:10 AM PST]

1/1/2010 5:05:44 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

trippy_hare
Over 1,000 Posts (1,021)
Arvada, CO
age: 27

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Always remember- you are a beautiful and unique snowflake. Just like everyone else.

1/1/2010 5:56:00 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

well,I think hiricus this thread has become biased by the same athiest/ crowd,look into it.But if you must,answer to them.I will help you out if you like,to call admistration.

1/1/2010 6:09:30 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

sage_way
Over 2,000 Posts (2,718)
Cottonwood, AZ
age: 48

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joined: Nov. 2008

Good Morning and Happy New Year to all...... ~

Quote from hircinus:
I've been gone for a while, I do have a life outside this place ya know. But anyways, I don't know where to start when it comes to responding to people's comments.


I can understand your dilemma...so much/so little has been said here in terms of reflection on your original post.


I seem to see semantics everywhere. All leading to the same question. I blame the responses, not the idea of the thread. I actually thought there was some integrity to the idea of this thread, but apparently a lot of people in here beg to differ.


Not necessarily...combining thoughts on one own beliefs with that of another in an attempt to find a medium must start from somewhere.


The point was that I found a little clarity in the idea of religion from just stepping away from either believing or not believing. Not that this is a permanent way to look at things, but I honestly look at it as the most unbiased way to look at everything before getting into anything. How can not believing or believing be considered biased when you have no beliefs getting in your way?


This is near impossible.....considering that we on a mortal realm here, are born into a clan filled with beliefs. From the very beginning we come into this odd world forming our own beliefs...ie. 'I will be fed warm milk from my mother, whom loves me and cares for me' That is the beginning of forming a solid foundation through values, morals ect..as we grow in our own ideas and beliefs of worldly matters.

Asking someone to step away from there beliefs is like asking them to abandon their own families.....which come to think of it, is the problem when people gravitate towards those who facilitate a commune or lead a congregation..they are looking for family; are they not?

There is no opinion attached to it, it's a fresh start. For me that is, but whatever. If you're content with what you believe, then to hell with this thread. It was unnecessary apparently and nobody should have even bothered posting in it.


No need to abandon this thread....whether you are here to monitor it or not, I would expect considering that this IS indeed an adult site that as adults we should be able to monitor ourselves.

You have laid the foundation of your ideas........let the idea evolve in the manner it was intended for.




1/1/2010 6:23:55 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

Hicicus.Lets cut to the chase.Ok! You need to see whaats going on.The people that are complaining,have a bad wrap on their own threads.Check it out for yourself.
Read:lives of rivers posts,to see what chaos asha/xashas causes.And look at her thread and see how many people she causes problems with.And garys thread on muslims.So,you need to check things out.They are probalby trying to get your thread canceled.

1/1/2010 6:28:47 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

I do think this is a goog thread,but there are those I mentiomed who will try to ruin it.Meaning they want your popularity which they lack know.Just want to mention that.

1/2/2010 6:05:19 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

First of all on topic: Xashas,what is it you are seeking to know about religion?I am not and others have mentioned that they are not able to follow your interpretations and philosophy.You are constantly questiong things about religion,scripture etc. On your thread you go around in circles and keep repeating yourself.Eventhough the answer is right in front of you.You sound signed with Gods fallen/angel satan.Kinda like the devils advocate that upholds the wrong side,as for arguments sake!

1/2/2010 6:53:45 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

Xashax,I blocked you.So of course it's no fun for you.You have no control here.Hey,what happened to your thread,whats missing in the bible,Oh,thats the one where you made so many enemies.You are delisional about braintunnel,deepriverman,subgry ...etc.
Your mind is so twisted.

Xashas,since you got off topic when you pleased and mentioned it.I think this one is going to bite you in the azz.On the thread,is Jesus the son of God.Woodsmamma your sidekick/spy said,"Pure,I blocked deepriverman and I can't understand why I can't read your posts Purecurosity."So,she thinks I am deepriverman.Well,today I unblocked her,so now she can read my posts.

Sageway,I am glad to be of help to get you unblocked with asha/xashas.I guess that is the only way she could read my posts.Gary was to scared to quote,because he didn't want to ruffle her feathers.



[Edited 1/2/2010 7:04:54 AM PST]

1/2/2010 7:12:45 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply
purecurosity
Austin, TX
age: 31

view: posts
joined: Dec. 2009

Hicicus,I do have my own religious beliefs.It's interesting how nonbelievers and not sure believers and believers mesh! And to see what direction their perspectives go.I like this thread and I think it keeps itself in check.I guess a thread has to start somewhere and evolve.This thread is unique in it's content.

On topic,maybe someone can propose what their religious direction is and why?And,what direction they seek their towards religion?

Page: 1, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
1/2/2010 9:24:59 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply edit

tgwb_gary
Over 1,000 Posts (1,060)
Quakertown, PA
age: 48

view: posts | threads
joined: Nov. 2009

And now you gloat and crow you are happy because I am now blocked and lowered to your level? I won't seek to grovel in the mud with people that intentionally cause pain and harm to others.

A friend of a friend is not a good place to be. Just so you know...

The masters of our world are now helpless it is up to us to help ourselves and what I see is the whole picture because all of the other posts have been removed. The picture is not good, you need to rise above your Ego 'A' Your world prevents me from seeing my beautiful tree.

You didn't understand that did you?

Living in the dessert must be harsh. There is no umbrella to protect you from the rays of the sun.

I really do wish you luck in your search for love,

You certainly can't say that I don't know what I am looking for, and since I found it I'm willing to do anything that is moral to keep it.

If you can't make friends with my friends and get me unblocked then I will have to block you so that I can once again be restored if that is at all possible.

Maybe you don't know how much I really cared.

I risked this getting blocked to reach out to you to give you some help. In return look at what you have written about the one that I love.

How did that make her feel? Do you like dividing people and being in the middle? You know you were warned, I tried to show you this and you didn't follow. Why?

Why did you have to be such a bully? I didn't send you another friends request after unblocking you and you never said you were sorry. Yet here I am reaching out to you again to become more respectful of other people and their beliefs.

I didn't twist the words you wrote like other people have a way of twisting my words.

Note to OP: Hicirus, I really do apologize for this drama on your thread I guess it is needed for some people to grow. Like holding a mirror up for them to see with as they look at their own reflections and see all of the incarnate souls that are just like the one they see.

I would close with this last thought, imagine what it would be like to be married to such a person?

I wish I got paid for all of the help that I offer. I'd be sitting fat on collecting for the services that 'A' alone needs.

I think someone needs to find the debugging tool for her... Do we have any brain programmers in the forum? I think I'm too personally invested to be of any good help here. 'A' you need to show me and my friend a lot more respect. I won't call you an enemy but I will call you block worthy, just like my ex-wife. Until she can say to me she is sorry for the harm she caused we really don't have anything more to discuss. I can forgive, but not if the other person is not willing to come to the table and give a heartfelt apology to all of us who have been so hurt. 'A' you didn't just hurt other people specifically you set out to hurt Asha. You did and that is despicable. Every bit of her popularity has been hard earned, I know because I fight for every post I make, and I don't use two or three words. I use pages, and I've posted many pages of information and I've got a lot more to offer. But I can't share with anyone if they are going to block me because of the likes of you.

There are two worlds,

Their world

Your world

Both are realities and both could be joined if you were really serious about being who you say you are. I agree with them, you have not shown yourself to be trustworthy. You don't own your own mistakes. For that reason you are Block worthy.

Do you have something to add? Losing friendships is not fun, you have a way of making people laugh, with you and not just at you. You could harness that energy and make things better. Maybe and maybe not? Just consider this, if I have to choose between you and your friendship and Asha and the world that Asha lives in, do you think there is much of a choice for me there? Have you checked out my threads that I started? I don't and haven't hidden my focus, even you pointed that out.

I didn't re-block you even after you shared my private messages, what does that say about me?

You on the other hand have done many things wrong and not owned a single error, what does that say about you?

So here you claim to be religious and now I ask you to prove it.

1/2/2010 9:29:00 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

trippy_hare
Over 1,000 Posts (1,022)
Arvada, CO
age: 27

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joined: Jun. 2009

Talking shit to someone who has you blocked is petty and infantile, gary.

As is making a post three pages long declaring yourself to be brilliant and wonderful.

Again, I say: Remember, you are a beautiful and unique snowflake. JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

1/2/2010 9:33:46 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply

dunrich2
Over 2,000 Posts (3,039)
Brantford, ON
age: 55 online now!

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joined: May. 2009


You on the other hand have done many things wrong and not owned a single error, what does that say about you?

So here you claim to be religious and now I ask you to prove it.


Aw man, Iam going to regret this, who is he talking to, purecuriousity?



[Edited 1/2/2010 9:34:01 AM PST]

1/2/2010 9:36:46 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply edit

tgwb_gary
Over 1,000 Posts (1,060)
Quakertown, PA
age: 48

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joined: Nov. 2009

Thanks Trippy,

You'll see that thanks to Blogger I can save this one for my archives on the old system...

Even this new comment... I know how to save myself, I wonder if 'A' can figure it out? Here is to hoping, but if past history is anything to go on? I might be better off traveling to Mecca, maybe I need to go on a Pilgrimage? What do you think Trippy? Wanna join me? We can go together I promise to leave the cross in Telford.

P.S. I think the other direction is really where I intend to travel, I just have to get myself turned around down here. I'll give it a little time to straighten out. I have other work to do also... So this and the page before is saved irregardless of what happens in the future. I don't have to worry about this as a token of history, it is archived.

1/2/2010 9:39:21 AM The whole picture, and unbiased view flag post: (wrong forum | inappropriate) quote reply edit

tgwb_gary
Over 1,000 Posts (1,060)
Quakertown, PA
age: 48

view: posts | threads
joined: Nov. 2009


Quote from dunrich2:
Aw man, Iam going to regret this, who is he talking to, purecuriousity?


That's right Dunn,

Don't regret it, we are cool I hope...

I just extended a hand down to lift her purecurosity up all she has to do is take a hold of the helpline I offer, now that would be a miracle. At least in my eyes.

A New Religion out of the old religions

The purpose of this post is to create a way to organize the wide diversity between all religions under one umbrella and to look at all the good and bad to weed out the evil and unite all religions into one universal concept less the man made structures and flawed teachings that contradict common sense. A majority of people on our planet believe in a source of something that is called Spirit, or GOD (Allah) the quest is for knowledge of GOD/Spirit/Allah. Where do we find GOD/Allah/Spirit. For now we seek Source, Power, Above, Religion, Knowledge, Love, Everlasting/eternal, Spirit. (SPARKLES)




(Follow the links to find your own individual beliefs.)
What are the realms of Different Religions

Western...........|....Middle Eastern....|.........Eastern


Prayers, Wishes and Petitions

What are the sacred objects of different religions?

On line Texts

Prophecies in Religion

Do You believe that the Devil Exists?
Do You Beleive in Heaven and Hell?

Being Made in the Image of GOD

Citation Page, Citation of Sources (COS), Acknowledgements and/or, Credits

Information
on Cults

The Rules according to the Terms of Service and Fair Use (with a Link) to Cornell Law University about Copyrights.

My Archives

Things yet to be done